The Truth about Muslim-Coptic Relations in Egypt (Thanks Nadia for being honest)

Before I married, I loved coconut. I loved coconut chocolate bars, coconut sprinkled over rice pudding, and coconut in basboosa, an Egyptian desert. I loved coconut.

I do not know who to attribute this design to. It was used as a profile picture by friends - and then me - on Twitter. It reads: one nation, one people.

My husband, on the other hand, couldn’t stand it. He’s the type of person that makes a disgusted face whenever a food he dislikes is mentioned. It really only took a few short months and the thought of coconut made me feel sick to my stomach.

That’s the kind of conditioning one experiences growing up in Egypt. That’s how I was conditioned to have discriminatory feelings towards Egyptian Coptic Christians.

It is time for me to tell this story. I tell it with the utmost shame. But it is a story that must be told. Unless we admit we have a problem and try to understand why we have it, we will never be able to fix it.

Growing Up Among Western Christians

I was born and grew up till the age of 15 in the United States. My American mother’s family, all of Norwegian-Swedish-Irish decent, is Christian, some of them devout. Their religion to me was always irrelevant and way below my radar. Well, except, perhaps, when I was about twelve and found I had a crush on my 11-year-old cousin Noah. (Noah, dude, sorry for telling this to the whole world before telling it to you first.) According to what I understood at the time, we could not marry because he was Christian and I was Muslim. Christians, I thought, did not allow marriages between cousins whereas Muslims did. I had no idea this had nothing to do with Christianity but rather it had everything to do with American law. In order for me to marry Noah, I concluded, he’d have to convert to Islam. That’s the only time my American side of the family’s religion ever even occurred to me.

Almost all my friends in school were not Muslim. I say not Muslim rather than Christian because again, their religion was irrelevant. They could have been Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, or atheists and I would never have known or cared. They were simply my friends.

When I was in 6th grade we moved to Buffalo, New York for a year. Living right next door to us was an Israeli family. My Egyptian father quickly instructed us not to play with their children. The Egyptian-Israeli 1973 war was still fresh in his memory. But across the street lived a Jewish-Moroccan family. Their daughter, Natalie, was in my class and I loved playing with her. She often invited me over to her house to play, watch movies late at night, and eat popcorn. I would never have known what Natalie’s religion was or where her family was originally from unless my parents had mentioned it in front of me. My father, it seems, had started becoming a bit cranky that I was spending so much time at their house. Nevertheless, my mother still let me go over and play when my father was not around. Once she gave my brother and me permission to go with Natalie’s family to get ice cream. My father came back early that day and my mother got into trouble.

But besides that little episode, I never really knew the religions of my friends in the United States.

My First Encounter with Egyptian Discrimination

I came to visit Egypt for the first time in the summer before the 4th grade. We stayed for a full month in the house of my Uncle Hassan. My brother and I quickly took to befriending a brother and sister our ages, Ashraf and Enas. They lived a few floors above my uncle’s apartment. During that month, we got to know most of the kids in the neighborhood, but Ashraf and Enas were our favorites. No particular reason why. We just all liked each other. Ashraf and Enas then took us across the street to get to know other friends of theirs who were hosting an Egyptian family that was visiting from the States. They had a boy our age who spoke perfect English! So the group of us became close pals.

But perhaps one week before we were to leave, it seems my grandfather had a talk with my father. It wasn’t all right for us Muslim kids to spend so much time with the Christians. Ashraf, Enas, and the Egyptian boy from the US were all Christians, we suddenly learned. When my brother and I were instructed to stop spending so much time with them, we were heart-broken. And the explanation sounded absolutely absurd. Why was it all right for us to play with our non-Muslim friends in the States but it was not all right for us to play with our Christian friends in Egypt? I bumped into the Egyptian-American son on the plane from Cairo to the US. The seeds of discomfort had already been sewn. I looked him in the eye and did not even say hello.

Learning the Culture of Discrimination

I finally settled in Egypt in 1986 when I started med school at Cairo University. It took only one year for my Muslim friends to teach me about what was proper in Muslim-Coptic relations in the country.

I remember befriending Mariam who had come from New York. She had the dark black hair of an Egyptian but an uncanny New Yorkan accent. It was nice to meet someone who came from a background similar to mine. Quickly my Muslim friends explained I could not befriend her. She’s Christian, I was told. So what, I asked. In Egypt, it’s not all right, was the answer.

By the end of that same year I had heard my Muslim friends say it was yucky to drink out of a cup a Copt had drank from; they explained that the way to identify a Copt was by their odd smell and their oily hair; and I saw them secretly sign to each other if someone speaking to them was a Copt by making a cross on the inside of their wrist or by whispering the word “Kuftis”, a word Egyptians use in place of Copt, stupidly thinking the Copts don’t know that’s what they mean.

I was quickly conditioned. This was the way of Egyptian culture, I thought. Different cultures have different practices and one must go with the flow, I convinced myself. And I did.

In the second half of our first year of med school, an Egyptian-Peruvian girl from the U.S.  joined us. She was Muslim. When I noticed she had started befriending Mariam, I took her by the arm and started educating her in Egyptian culture. Here in Egypt, I explained, it isn’t acceptable for Muslims to befriend Copts. This girl was much smarter than I was. She maintained her friendship with Mariam and grew further away from me.

I only knew one Muslim girl in med school who had a Copt as her best friend. They went to school together all their lives and were close neighbors in Shobra, a neighborhood in Cairo where a large number of Copts reside. No matter how hard my Muslim friends tried to convince her otherwise, Howeida refused to leave the side of her best friend. My memory of them is of two girls, arms hooked, with huge smiles on their faces.

A Pervasive Culture

Since that first year in med school in Egypt, I’ve witnessed many types of discrimination against Copts.

In one of the departments at the faculty of medicine, I was told by a trusted source that a Muslim doctor was given her PhD much more quickly than normal so that her Christian colleague of the same year, who was awarded her PhD two years later, would always be subordinate to her and would never be the head of that department some 30 years later.

I’ve also continued to see parents teach their children that it’s not all right to befriend Coptic children at school.

A member of my extended family recently told me that her teenage son had a crush on a Coptic girl. This conservative family member did not really have an issue with her son expressing feelings toward a member of the opposite sex. But she was bothered by the fact she was a Copt. I asked her why? Muslim men can marry Christian women, I said. When they grow up, they can marry. Copts in Egypt are mushrikeen, she explained. They do not believe in one God. They believe in God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This belief in the Trinity disqualifies them from being able to marry a Muslim man, she told me. She had a few harsh words with her son. It’s not all right to be friends with a Coptic girl.

Also in Egypt, many Muslims will refuse to buy goods from a Copt’s shop and will go out of their way to find another.

And anywhere a church is built, the Muslims in the community will make sure – and then boast – that a much larger mosque was built exactly across the street.

I need to emphasize that not all Egyptian Muslims discriminate against Coptic Christians. But this culture that I explain is definitely pervasive throughout our country. It took a lot of growing up and conscious de-conditioning  of myself before my eyes opened to what was truly happening.

It now disturbs me to the core to hear Egyptian officials say there is no fitna ta’ifiya (sectarian strife) in Egypt. It is simply not true.

I have been working hard to remove the ugliness from within me. I hope one day the ugliness is removed from Egyptian society as a whole.

Note: this article was written to be intentionally biased. I acknowledge that some problems arise as a result of actions from some Coptic Christians in the country. But as a religious minority forming less than 20 per cent of the population, they are much less to blame than the religious majority. I acknowledge that Egyptians as a whole have other racist and discriminatory tendencies. It is almost unheard of for Nubians to marry non-Nubians, for example, or for a fair Egyptian girl to marry a black man. I also acknowledge that there are some bright examples of open-hearted Muslim and Christian men and women. Though I acknowledge this, I wanted this article to put the spotlight on a real and ever-growing problem in Egypt. A real problem that is being swept under the carpet and not getting the attention it deserves. A real problem that has can lead to violent actions and the potential loss of a dear and intrinsic part of our population to mass migrations.



 



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10 Responses

  1. Mohamed Abdelfattah, on March 19, 2010 at 10:42 pm Said:

    All the cases you’ve mentioned are true. The problem is that Muslims are not really conscious of it or that it is discriminatory. They keep hearing untrue rumours about copts and their practices and they’ve never met a single copt.

    Both communities need to practically engage with each other. I’d love to stop seeing the polarized sight of a few coptic girls and boys taking their own bench in the lecture whole. It’s so sick for all of us.

    Good confession Dr.Nadia =)

    Reply

  2. Chitra, on March 19, 2010 at 10:43 pm Said:

    Thanks for writing this. This must have been a difficult exercise, but an important one, and I think we all must be even harsher with ourselves. I find echoes of this in my own experience, of being told by my parents or community of how Muslims were “dirty” or “not to be trusted.” Funny enough, one always thinks of the “other side” in those terms. Hygiene and fairness haha.

    Also, God forbid I ever marry a Muslim. I think I have *never* gone out with a Hindu yet, so my parents will have great luck on that front. However, over the years, I’ve given in and now I look at people and think, Muslim, can’t marry, better not bother with him.

    And your experience of taking a friend aside. I remember wanting to take this white-american-girl aside and to *warn* her about her then-boyfriend – brown-egyptian-copt i presume and telling her about “what these Egyptians want.” I’ve come to hate that trait in everyone – of wanting to intill fear and distrust in others.

    Today I was at Holi and some Brit-accent behind me said, “Of course, these people don’t know how to queue.” I wanted to snap back and say, “Then go back (to wherever you’re from.) What the hell is “these people”? Whether he was referring to the Indians at the embassy where the event was hosted, or to the country he was living, it strikes me as impolite to your host and arrogant to the nth degree.

    Seriously, I wish everyone would do this exercise to regularly wash their brains of filth. :)

    Again, thanks for trying it out. :) Is refreshing.

    Reply

  3. Fabio Turone, on March 20, 2010 at 7:43 am Said:

    I keep discussing – particularly with my wife – that this kind of discrimination and abuse is intrinsic in most/all religions (because the religious “tag” is a very powerful and an all-encompassing one), but she keeps telling me that it’s not in religions, but rather in some religious majorities, and I stay convinced that there is always someone capable of using badly the power of religion.

    I guess this quote from Jon Stewart sums my feeling quite well ;-) :

    «Religion. It’s given people hope in a world torn apart by religion»

    Reply

    • nadiaelawady, on March 20, 2010 at 5:41 pm Said:

      Fabio, I have no smart answer to your comment, unfortunately. All I can say is that my observation of what is happening in Egypt is that it’s more about a learned culture and not about religion. I do not think Christianity or Islam encourage discrimination. The fact that some Muslims and Christians do reflects on them and not their religions, in my opinion. At least I’d like to think that. ;-)

      Reply

  4. Mohammed Yahia, on March 20, 2010 at 8:34 am Said:

    Thanks for posting this. It is rare for people to actually go through the effort of reconditioning themselves and their beliefs, and even rarer for them to come out and explain it.

    I was lucky to be brought up in a non-discriminatory atmosphere. My parents never objected to me being friends with Copts and, for the past 13 years of my life, I’ve had a Copt bestfriend that I really wouldn’t imagine life without.

    At my previous work, however, I witnessed these discriminatory remarks in alarming ways. A particular person was driving me crazy and I had unending arguments with her over some of the stuff she said. She would say that she knows shops of Copts by their smell, she is disgusted to shake hands with them, or that she wouldn’t eat of the same food (you might know who I’m talking of!)

    I believe the problem in Egypt is far deeper however. We are raised in a way that ignores the rights of minorities. Yes there is a problem with Muslim-Coptic relationships, but its the same with other minorities. Egyptians are horrible in the way they treat black people for example. I was watching a sarcastic TV show on Moga TV (Egyptian satellite channel) and they were making fun of blacks and laughing about. It got to a degree that was for me too painful to continue watching. It was just disgusting. Sometimes I see the way Africans are treated in Egypt – like they were animals – and I want to scream at the authorities who actually fume these flames of hatred.

    The problem is people are raised that way and there get no education from ANY source that this is unacceptable behavior. It comes to the point of “everyone else is doing it so why can’t we?”

    And the problem becomes deeper. Because of the obvious discrimination towards Copts from Muslims, the Copts automatically reply back in their own ways. For example, in the building where my Copt bestfriend lives, the owners don’t sell apartments except to Christians.

    The problem indeed is very serious and I think it needs everyone to start reconsidering and changing themselves. After all, life should be about that, a journey to improve ourselves and how we deal with others around it.

    Reply

  5. dr sayed, on March 20, 2010 at 3:49 pm Said:

    Dear Dr Nadia;
    I am afraid my experience was totally different from yours.Also the comments here will be skewed about the truth since they reflect the views of people who speak english and have net-access and computers. I think you probably are living in a gas bubble of very observant muslims , maybe with a salafi touch,this is normal and known in Egypt’s medical communities.I grew up in the real Egyptian community, where I never went to a mosque till I was 18,learnt very little quran, did not pray,made wodo wrong till that age too.I never heard one bad word about christians till I entered the university, probably from the same type of people you encountered.I benefited alot in university islamically.
    My muslim mom likes to eat pork mortadella since she was a kid, she attended Jesuit schools where they hooked her to it , my muslim dad enjoys a good drink of alcohol every now and then.Most of our friends are christian, many in our family do not fast or pray.Most smoke.We lazily neglected our prayers watching tv all day long.This is most of Egypt’s muslims,yes there are hardline muslims, but that is a small well organized community, mostly centered around the engineering and medical communities [your bubble]. In the Egypt mainstream I grew up in I have encountered ZERO anti-christian feelings or discrimination. I never even heard the word kuftis till I was in the university. I think it is exagerrated self-flagellation to say that Egypt’s muslims are so racist, this tune reminds me of the corrupt Mubarak stooge regime that tries to endear itself to its western patrons by being pro-christian and anti-muslim. Remember that in Egypt there has been 1/3 million muslim political prisoners under Mubarak and no christians.If any mosque is open after isha all will go to jail ,whilst churches are open till 3am with picnics and math lessons, the regime’s anti-islam stand is what feeds the small unfortunate anti-christian prejudice.We need freedom and democracy, that will solve all our problems.

    Reply

  6. Mo-ha-med, on March 20, 2010 at 4:35 pm Said:

    It’s always interesting to hear descriptions of muslim discrimination… while some i have witnessed and others I trust your and others’ description of, my experience has been a bit different – raised as a religious and ethnic minority abroad – in a place far less forgiving of dark skin and muslim first names than the USA of the 1980s – I was sent to a Catholic school in Cairo, where I was, again, a religious minority, until I went to college.
    My experience of discrimination was the reverse of yours… Funny.

    Reply

  7. nadiaelawady, on March 20, 2010 at 5:32 pm Said:

    It’s always fascinating to see how diverse the experiences of Egyptians are depending on which category of society one lives in.

    One of the problems with writing in English on the Internet is that posts will only be read and understood by a certain category of Egyptians that is hardly representative of the vast majority.

    I’m going to have to wholeheartedly disagree with comments such as Dr Sayed’s. I do not think the story I related in this post is that of someone living in a gas bubble. Quite the contrary. I think anyone who thinks Egyptians can be represented by secular Muslims who eat pork, drink alcohol and surround themselves by Christian friends is living in a gas bubble.

    My friends throughout university were from Sayeda Zeinab, Faisal, Imbaba and the Egyptian provinces. I went to a public university; Cairo University. That experience is very different from someone who lived in Heliopolis or Maadi and went to a private university such as the American University in Cairo.

    I’m also very aware that the experiences of Muslim Egyptians who went to Catholic schools in Egypt was very different than the one I related. Again, that is not the general experience and is not representative of the masses.

    Since I wrote this post yesterday, I’ve also received some comments here and on Twitter about the actions of some Egyptian Christians. I expected such comments, thus my note at the end of the post. And I repeat: I acknowledge that the overall picture is more complex than the one I relate. My post is about one personal experience. I feel it is largely representative. There are many other stories. Let’s hear them. But in the end, I believe it is up to the Muslim majority in the country to take responsibility.

    Reply

  8. Lasto adri, on March 20, 2010 at 6:41 pm Said:

    I may be like Mohamed, and have quite different experience. While I was in Islamic school, but I used to have Christian neighbors and friends.. however, once a big church was built behind our house.. suddenly all the christian boys and girls I used to know – left us (I mean by us all the kids who used to gather and play in summer, in the neighborhood).
    We didn’t connect that immediately, but later on we realized they were engaged in activities in the church, while we -Muslims- stayed to play in the streets because mosques do not offer such activities,and we don’t have a common club.

    When I went to college the same thing was repeated. I actually didn’t have the chance to know any Christians quite good. Usually they were standing together in the same place in college. And whenever I try to go there and talk to any of my colleagues, I can feel all the sneaking looks at the one and only veiled in the area.. So, I stopped trying to mingle..

    On the contrary to you, I didn’t hear that much in college against Christians.. in fact, such talk were against the extreme Muslims, and Muslim brotherhood. My parents demanded me not to go to my college’s mosque, and not to know any of them..
    They were irritating to tell u the truth. But my parents didn’t comment when they hear me talk about Mariz, Betty or who ever… they also have their Christian friends…

    Reply


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